PPP004: Morpheus in the Matrix

by Wilmien Davis | PPP: Passion Purpose Potential

This is the transcript for the podcast.  Please note that all the details from the transcript company has not bee double checked.

Wilmien:              Welcome to the passion, purpose, potential podcast. I am Wilmien mean Davis and I will be your host for today. . and if you have listened last week you will know that this week we continue with the interview that I had with Ian Hatton. Here is a nice taste of what you can expect today.

Wilmien:              What advice would you give the 11 of 20 years ago that made that big? I think it’s 2016 years ago. What advice would you give that, Ian, with the knowledge that you have now to make that a bit easier?

Ian:                        I’m going to keep it very strange on so maybe I’ll give more than one answer, but I think the first answer that I would give

Wilmien:              and that’s the only bit I give you now for the rest, please stay tuned until the end. Here’s the rest of my interview with Ian. Enjoy.

Wilmien:              And what advice would you give to that team leader if they don’t necessarily get rewarded for putting this effort into the team whilst they are still being evaluated on the output stickney outputs that they do rather than managing a team, what would you advise?

Ian:                        Well, I, I would at that point, one is zoom out a little bit and look at sort of legacy because there comes a point where you have to realize that the most efficient way of, of moving forward is to work through your people, not to be controlling them to do the way you do it. So let me, let me sort of kind of unpack that a little bit. Um, the,

Ian:                        the real job, that real difference between individual contributor and being a leader is the leader’s job is to get the results through the people. And you know, even though initially you might be able to through a lot of command and control, which doesn’t work anymore with millennials anyway, by the way, where you can still get away with it a little bit here and there. Uh, what effectively doing is you’re putting your, even if you get the results and you get rewarded for those results, it’s such a short term view. You cannot do it sustainably because as your team grows, as your seniority grows, you have less and less control. As millennials are coming into the workforce. You again have less and less control your, your results need to be through people, so if you don’t grow that expertise in building teams, for example, in a stimulating a self leadership in building self accountability into your people, that kind of thing as opposed to you trying to direct is always going to be a limit when you, you become the bottleneck and there’s always going to be a limit to what you can facilitate.

Ian:                        So even though you could get away with it a little bit for awhile, it’s going to prevent you from the promotion after the promotion or from the legacy or from sustainability. Awful. Building a reputation as a leader. You know, if you effectively, you just being you split technical expert, you’re actually not a leader at all. Um, and, and you’re going to be, you’re going to end up working harder and harder and harder. You’re going to have to do all this stuff yourself and then you’ll get a complaint later that, oh, your people are lazy and they’re not really contributing, and you have to do all the work and you’re working such long hours. It’s completely unsustainable. You will burn out if you are taking that level of control,

Wilmien:              absolutely, or the burn out might not look like a burn out of other people, but it might look like a heart attack. It might look like in 10 stress levels that comes out in all other aspects in your body and in your emotions and how you handle conflict and so forth and what I love what you also send that bigger picture. It’s almost like if the team leader find a purpose that’s bigger than just making the direct manager happier but can have such an impact in people and people’s lives who reports to them and that is more last sting like this odd married thing that you gave now in thing that many people can argue as well what the validity of that is, but the validity of having an impact in someone else’s life and helping someone else to become bitter. That is lost. You cannot take that away.

Ian:                        So last thing for me in that I’ve seen one of the most common bits of feedback I get when I find people that I’ve trained. Maybe again, a year later or six months later or two years later, whatever is they talk about how it’s impacted the whole lives to, to, to discover their potential, whether it’s the leader or somebody working in a team. Just that sort of perspective. Um, it changes marriage, it changes the way you raise your children. I mean, if you’re a true leader a then you’re going to bring those leadership skills into everything and there’s nothing like being a parent to expose you as a leader. And so you know that that whole impact ripples through everything and it ripples actually through society. I’ve heard of people who talk about things that they’ve done in sort of social organizations outside of work with the things that they’ve learned in discovering themselves and discovering that sort of leadership potential in that way.

Wilmien:              But yeah. You mentioned earlier some of the feedback that you’ve received on beautiful feedback of leaders saying how they launched this change. What does it do to you to hear feedback like that?

Ian:                        Well, it’s kind of like living my purpose. So, you know, I’ve got a very sort of corny way of saying what do I, what do I do or what do I believe is my sort of purpose or vision or mission of, I’m not even sure which word to use most, but it’s simply this, that I to rock her world, um, by influencing leaders who rock their worlds.

Wilmien:              Oh, I love that. My question was, what is your purpose? And you just gave it to me. I love the way that you’ve expressed that beautifully and how did you get to that purpose that not only the state but to understand what exactly it is at the end of the day.

Ian:                        So I was actually just brainstorming it with some friends. We were all talking about our purpose. We will working together in the same business, but it was actually not part of a business conversation. It was a, it was more of a social conversation and we were all just brainstorming a little bit around what could our purpose statement b, what would actually call it and so on. And um, and this was probably about two years after I left Microsoft, somewhere around there, two to three years, somewhere around that sort of period and I’d really sort of, you know, I was living at, but I hadn’t put a phrase to it yet. And uh, and, and that’s what came up for me while we were talking just suddenly. That’s what came up for me and I’ve stuck with it ever since. I think since then I’ve probably developed my personal values. I probably developed some specifics of what it is that I do in terms of, uh, the purpose that’s kind of been consistent. Whether I’m writing a book, whether I’m delivering a speech, whether I’m training leaders in the classroom, will training self leaders, which is another interesting area.

Wilmien:              So wow, that’s, that’s lovely. Isn’t the purpose is overarching. It’s not something it might change in cs big seasons in your life, but he doesn’t really change. If you’ve started off with that, you might refine it. I agree with you, but it’s an overarching thing. It’s, it’s, it’s the one constant within all the details. If one is busy with. So have you written a book yet?

Ian:                        I’m busy writing two books at the moment time. No Way. Well I’m focusing on the one but the other one is started and I’m still getting ideas for to even you have the data. I had some new ideas. For instance, I’ve made some notes and had some discussions with, with a friend of mine who is always a good sounding board, but I’m really focusing in on one because I have a new sort of a set of products that are busy developing and so I’m writing the book for that set of products.

Wilmien:              Very exciting. And your talisman it’s out and we can help you to, to market it out there. That’s always exciting. I will. I will. So when you were leaving Microsoft and what was the most difficult thing for you to leave the security of a corporate and start off on your own?

Ian:                        Yeah. So I guess it was the difficult that I anticipated and then there was a difficult. I didn’t anticipate. So. So the difficulty sort of anticipate a little bit was, you know, the, the, the, just the insecurity. Absolutely. You know, coming from a corporate world is perceived, I don’t think it’s actually real in hindsight because you can be retrained from anywhere, anytime actually is a perceived security. You have this income that just happens and then suddenly you’re out on your own. And, and initially my thinking was that I would just switch roles in corporate and that never materialized. So I really almost had to then become an entrepreneur. Uh, and uh, so, so I mean, I remember for example, I mean, this sounds really silly, but, um, I remember being in mourning about not being able to get products cheap anymore from Microsoft. You know, it’s such a silly little thing, but it’s amazing how much sort of security and, and importance, uh, I’d been putting on being a Microsoft person, especially a product person, especially somebody who launches products and that kind of thing that is sort of, it become, it become part of my identity.

Ian:                        And it felt like I’d lost a piece of myself in getting out of the corporate world and especially getting out of Microsoft. And I mean, I know Microsoft has many detractors, uh, and, and I’m not even talking about that, but as, as a team member or staff member, but I’ve given my life to for five years, it was quite an adjustment getting out of it. It really was.

Wilmien:              No, and it’s, it’s sad. It feels silly, but it’s so real. We call those the golden handcuffs now all the benefits that’s with the job and we don’t think form spot of our identity.

Ian:                        Absolutely. And then of course, the reality after that was a, you know, the, the high hopes were dashed very quickly, you know, the, the, the income reduced dramatically. Uh, I slid school fees to pay my kids at school at that time. Um, and, uh, um, so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, um, it’s those sorts of things that, that, uh, financially it was really poor for about three years until things really to move properly. And then, mm, things picked up and, and, and yeah, now it’s great again, but it’s been a really rough journey. I don’t regret it should be really clear about that. I don’t regret it. Um, I probably regret a couple of mistakes here in the end the way that I did it, but in terms of getting out, um, to, to really be living a purpose, I would never, never go back on that.

Wilmien:              Oh, fantastic. And what advice would you give the era of 20 years ago that made that big, I think it’s 2016 years ago. What advice would you give that Ian was the knowledge that you have now to make that a bit easier?

Ian:                        I’m going to keep it very strange on, so maybe I’ll give more than one answer, but I think the first answer that I would give is going to journey to learn to love yourself because this kind of thing is going to come from inside of you and it’s going to take from inside of you. And I think, um, you know, there was a lot of ego stuff going on for me. Um, I think, uh, I, my success was delayed by not doing the inner journey and I think the inner journey I met a lot of what I talk about now and what you can, what I’m writing about is the inner journey of a leader because what happens really is the doing that we do sustainably can only come from a being and so we need to know our being. We need to have that inner journey to learn, to love and accept ourselves and uh, and build a strong relationship, even a meditative relationship, that kind of thing.

Ian:                        Take that image any because that’s the, the, the wellspring from which everything flows or you cannot give what you do not have to give. And so the image one is the, is the most crucial piece. It’s not about becoming self centered or anything like that. I know people haven’t been a mitch any. They often misunderstand it. In fact, it’s probably one of the most selfless things you could ever do is to actually go and embark on that, that selfish in a journey. Because the fruit of it is the thing that flows to everybody else. I’ll give you a simple example. I, I probably, I knew took that journey 100 percent seriously from 2011 onwards and immediately I discovered that when I was training without changing anything from a technique perspective, I was having a deeper impact and I’m kind of puzzled me initially and then I realized more and more that the inner journey base fruit and people pick up so much of what’s inside of you, that the imagery is the sustainability.

Wilmien:              Yes. Oh yeah. You make me very excited. It’s, it’s absolutely what I believe too, because if you don’t go into that inward journey, you’re wearing so many mosques to protect yourself and those things. People pick it up. They don’t pick it up physically or concept that mosque is that thing because you haven’t sorted that out, but subconsciously that pick up that you’re not real, that you are not, that you’re hiding things because you want to protect yourself. You’re scared of things and through the journey, if you accept yourself, it’s okay. If people can see even the list pretty proud of you because if you’ve conquered it and you’re okay with that, no one can use it against you at the end of the day and it makes you more free. I found, um, I’m much more free when I went on that and an example of that in many months, hated when I tell the story, but if you’re an airplane, they tell all the mummies first on your own mosque in emergency before your child and the mummy sticked.

Wilmien:              Very upset about that because we, our first instinct is our child, but what does it help you to save your child and you die next to your child who has been in vain. Look at your child. But if you put your mask on first, you have energy to put mask on your child, to take them out, to help them whenever you need to escape that thing and you are the longer term. So it’s not a selfish thing. But to look after your own health in a health, your physical health, we can even add spiritual health in. They too. I’m on the long term. It’s much more sustainable for the people around it. So Greg, Ian, last, any last thoughts from your side?

Ian:                        So there’s a thought that comes up for me and it’s not a short. So I’m going to try and explain it, but fairly quickly is get to know yourself. Um, so for me, what happened quite significantly in my life is a few of my friends were talking about, so who is your mythical character? Who are you? And one of the things that came out for me was that I am morpheus. And initially, you know, I kind of looked at it and I thought, Oh yeah, I wish I was always am. I’m morpheus. And my friend said to me, you know, the more we look at you, yes, they’re probably some refuges and that, but you are actually morpheus. And morpheus has these specific characteristics of, of Morpheus was the god of dreams in the Matrix. Movies addresses the big crowd and believes when others have stopped believing.

Ian:                        So there’s all these sorts of things that are elements of who morpheus is, you know, so, so there’s a whole lot of these sort of things going on. Now what I, I’ve, I’ve sort of slowly but surely embrace that in my life that that’s who I am and what’s really quite interesting now is reaching this point of kind of going. But if that’s who I am, that’s what my product should be as well. And so my production line, and that’s what I’m writing a book called the Morpheus, genius and my products. I’m going to have some training products, three different training products called morpheus, genius, various flavors of it. My keynote’s going to be called morpheus genius, and I’m doing more and more work in that. And so this whole thing of discovering who you really are becomes a central idea in, in your passion that it’s eventually just flows from your being. It flows from who you really are. And I would just really encourage people to do that. If you can’t find a mythical name, at least try and get a really strong handle on, on who you really are, who you are as a leader, who you are as a parent, who you are as a mentor, who you are into society, and then let everything flow from that.

Wilmien:              Well, yeah, and that’s real inspirational and very excited and it’s like your brand now that you’ve just described and that is so clear in the clear picture that comes to mind. No, thank you for that.

Ian:                        Okay, so I have a website, www dot totally dash n dot d hyphen [inaudible] dot com. By the way, if you go to www dot morpheus, genius.com, you’ll also get their morpheus. Genius will also get you because that’s the moment is feeding into their. They will separately be more later and then course on facebook under. Totally in. Totally in a Zeta. A is a is where you can get hold of me and I’ve got an ad facebook page a little bit more active. And so that’s, that’s uh, that was probably the two best ways of getting hold of me. You can also email me on him@totally-n.com.

Wilmien:              Great. I will put that in the show notes if anyone and resonated with you and we’d like to know to get in touch with you. Ian. Thank you so much. I love this one, this session. I’ve learnt a lot in this and I’m totally inspired to to carry on with this too.

Ian:                        Thank you. I mean it’s been such a pleasure chatting to you

Wilmien:              and this concludes the interview with Ian Hatton. I hope you enjoyed it and my contact with team and support team and looking forward to that boutique coffees. It’s coming out soon. I want to remind you about the strength finders special that’s still running until the end of December 2018. I’m looking forward to meet up with you and to take you for your journey to start finding that passion and finding what engage you in, but will energize you. Until next time,

Wilmien:           may the Lord bless you and keep you nice face, shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he turned his face toward you and give you peace.


facebook: Totally Ian


You can get hold of me on my website:


e-mail: Wilmien.davis@icloud.com or

cell phone:  +27 836339525 

My favourite books, which I can highlyy recommend:

Emotional Intelligence 

Your Brain at Work 

 Quiet Leadership

Your Best Year Ever 

Emotionally Healthy Spirituality 


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